From breakdancer to fitness influencer with over 1,5 million followers | LeoMoves

LeoMoves website: http://www.leomoves.com

Balboa Gym in Zurich: http://www.balboamove.ch

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LeoMoves (00:00)
And I was like, why should they come and train with me? If I do what everybody else does
they may go to the one with the most experience, they go with the one that looks the prettiest or whatever, you know?

Tommy (00:21)
Hey and welcome to the Broccoli Guy podcast. I'm Tommy and this show is all about creating a healthier and happier body. Today we're going to talk about a special kind of fitness and also the business of fitness with my good friend Leandro aka Leo Moves. Leo, welcome to the show.

LeoMoves (00:44)
Hi Tommy, thank you so much for having me at this show. Pleasure to be here.

Tommy (00:47)
Great to have you. It's been a while. We've wanted to sit down together for quite some time now and we've known each other for many years. The reason why I'm so excited to talk to you today is because I've witnessed your journey from this breakdancing young man with lots of tattoos and long hair to becoming this very big influencer and world traveler that you are today. And your Instagram has over 1 .5 million followers among other impressive social media numbers. To give people an idea about who you are and what you do, how would you introduce yourself to some strangers at a cocktail party?

LeoMoves (01:32)
So I would say...
Well, I'm a movement coach. I'm a movement coach because something is really hard and people ask me, okay, what are you doing? What is your sport? Because I am doing so many things. And for me, I think a good way to explain this, I just want to make people getting connected to their own body again. So I want to have my body as my best friend. So I try to go through various disciplines to learn about how can you be strong?

But how can you also control your body? How can you move your body in certain scenarios on the floor, while hanging, while jumping, fast movements, slow movements? And over the years I started teaching. So I'm also a teacher, movement teacher, because I love to share my knowledge and also show people how they can feel better, how they can move better. And it's not only about having a lot of muscles. For me, it's more about...

feel good, you know. And to be fit doesn't mean you have to have these big muscles. And so if I would have to introduce myself, I would say, yes, I'm a movement teacher. I'm a movement coach and also some kind of an athlete for me, for myself, because I don't compete.

in competitions, but I would say I train as much as an athlete in the years and I see myself as an athlete with my own body.

Tommy (03:00)
That's a great statement because when I worked at Nike we had the famous Bill Bowerman sentence everywhere which said if you have a body you're an athlete so definitely everyone who moves is an athlete if they choose to be so and speaking about muscles and a fit body you definitely have muscles and a fit body but that of course you're still skinny in some way you are very lean.

LeoMoves (03:10)
I see that.
Thank you.

Tommy (03:28)
And for people who don't really know what you do, even after your explanation, I would say we just show them what you do. That would be the best explanation. So, your Instagram has over 1 .5 million followers. And this is crazy because three days prior to today's...

LeoMoves (03:39)
Nice.
Okay.

Tommy (03:52)
with you I checked out your Instagram for the preparation and it still said 1 .4 million yesterday it jumped to 1 .5 million so it's really growing like crazy still and to show people what you do is here we can see some break dancing moves that you do so you really explain the movements that you do step by step so that people can follow along

LeoMoves (03:53)
Mm -hmm.
Okay.
Hmm.
Maybe if you click on top, go to the center one, the motivation.

Tommy (04:22)
and you do this.

LeoMoves (04:31)
Yeah, I think here you see a good variety. Also what I want to share with people exactly, so having control of the body is unmatched. You see handstands, I'm also doing some break dance elements, being creative with my body weight movements. And this is also the message I want to show people, like make your body your best friend. I think this is so important for people to understand. Yeah.

Tommy (04:59)
That's a really important sentence that you said, making your body your best friend, because what I see a lot of people and a lot of clients do is people want to lose weight, get shape, but they do it in a destructive way, depriving their bodies of nutrients, eating a lot less than they need, or sweating gruesome hours on the bike

LeoMoves (05:10)
Bye.

Tommy (05:23)
And that's very bad for their bodies and for their mental health, of course. So yeah, definitely make your body, your friends and not your enemy. So I want to get to know you a little bit better. And for that, I want to go to one specific post, which is this one. So for people listening, you posted a video here where we can see you in the jungle of Ecuador.

LeoMoves (05:42)
Mm -hmm.

Tommy (05:51)
as how old were you there? 13. So at the age of 13, 13 years ago, you were 20, okay got it. So we can see you jumping and dancing in Ecuador after you carried some coconuts or bananas, and you're break dancing in, a primary school, kindergarten on the concrete floor.

LeoMoves (05:56)
No, no, no, 13 years ago, I was 21. I was 21.
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Tommy (06:19)
And can you tell us about that time? What were you doing there?

LeoMoves (06:26)
So yeah, many people don't know my job was I learned animal keeper. So this is what I learned when I was 15 years old. I started with that, worked at the zoo in Zurich, did the apprenticeship there. And I worked with animals for more than 10 years before I started being, becoming a coach in the movement or fitness scene. And by that time I had a friend of mine, he worked at the zoo in Zurich when I was working there as well.

Tommy (06:31)
Thanks for watching.

LeoMoves (06:53)
And he told me back then, yeah, he will go to Ecuador to animal rescue center to lead it for like four and a half years. He was always like, yeah, whenever you want, you can come and visit me.
And I went there. And in the beginning, it was a big shock, you really, you don't have not much there, no internet connection. You have those houses built with bamboo or wood, no real windows, only mosquito nets and everything is molding a little bit because it's always wet.

So then after three months, I asked if I can stay longer, two more months. So I stayed five months. After five months, I was like, I need to go back to Switzerland because I need to pay my stuff there. I didn't plan to stay that long. But I told my job in Zurich, I want to quit. I want to go back to Ecuador. So I went back after five months, worked for four months here at the construction work just to earn my money, to pay off my stuff.

And after four months, I went back for seven more months again. But then as a worker, I got paid and yeah, then I was working there for seven more months until I finally came back to Switzerland.

Tommy (07:59)
And while you were there, you already had this passion for breakdance. And so you kept practicing there during the off hours.

LeoMoves (08:04)
Yes, so...

Yeah, exactly, because of course back then no Instagram was existing, especially not for me, but I was doing breakdance. And back then also, so first I played 15 years of my life, I was playing soccer, football. Then when I was around 20, I stopped playing football, I started with breakdance. So until I went to Ecuador, I was already two years into breakdance and already there I was very like, I want to keep practicing, I want to keep improving.

And I looked for a spot, where can I do some break dance? had a school for the local community there. And I asked the teachers, can I use this room? Because it was the only room where we had a little bit of space on this floor. they gave me a key and told me, yeah, if there is no school, you can go up. You can just put all the chairs and all the benches and tables on the side.

and you can use the room for your own training. And this is what I started to do then after work, or on my days off, I just went up to the school, put everything aside, used my music and just went for the training. And back then my level was not where my level is now and it was really tough many times to train there because it was all the physical work as well. And like I said, the floor was like a concrete floor.

And in this post, you also saw one photo. So I started wrapping carton around my shoes. In certain moves, I always slide my feet on the floor. And on this floor, after one or two trainings, the shoes would be like broken with holes in it. So I started putting this carton so I can train a bit longer without destroying the shoes and all those things. Yeah, I started practicing my back flip outside on this grass or on this football field. And...But I remember also many times I was very frustrated back then. I got angry very fast when I was training. So I went up there, then I started training, didn't work, I was tired, I got angry. But even if I got really angry, the next day I wanted to train again. So I never lost the motivation. Yeah, poor devil.

Tommy (10:09)
And where did that drive come from?

LeoMoves (10:11)
Yeah, hard to say. I think one thing is I really wanted to learn those things. And I still it was already back there, like movement was my passion, even though it was only breakdance. So back then I didn't think about calisthenics, I didn't think about movement. I didn't even know it exists. For me, movement was just breakdance. But I also had my role models that I checked on YouTube. So when I went to the city, I downloaded the videos from them.

watch them in the rainforest to motivate me to try to copy some of the moves. I think this yeah I just really wanted to reach this goal and yeah that was my motivation I guess.

Tommy (10:52)
And fast forward, you persisted with your passion and now you have over 1 .5 million followers on Instagram and a significant presence on other platforms such as TikTok or YouTube. And how have you approached building and engaging with your online community?

LeoMoves (11:14)
Yeah, that started like in 2016. This is when I started with my Instagram channel. I saw people use Instagram, but it was like this fake word because back then it was a lot about photos and people showing their good life on Instagram. That was always like, yeah, this is all fake, you know, you can't, and this actually, it can be very fake because you can, you decide what you show people, you know? So I also told this to my followers many times.

I can always pull out the good stuff, but you don't see my bad times behind the camera because I'm not like filming every second of my life. I can really decide. I could, I could even like make stories or film everything when I was in Japan, two weeks ago. And I could still post that and everybody would think I live in Japan still. So you can really fake everything if you want. And as of back then, it was like for me, no, I don't want to use anything of that. But then at some point, 2016 was also the year of my big change in general because back then this is I was working at an animal shelter in Zurich and It was okay, but it was not my passion anymore because one thing is I was used to work with wild animals and back then it was like pets, cats, dogs Of course, not bad, but my passion was like working with tigers and monkeys and those animals. So it was still nice but I felt I need to change something in my life because also as an animal keeper, you, you earn very little compared to other jobs. You have to work on Sundays, on holidays, because animals need care always, of course. So that was sort of time when I, when I found out how can I switch to, to fitness, to start coaching. And at the same time I was like, okay, so let's start posting some stuff on Instagram. And my idea was just, I just start with something. I just. do an exercise, I post it and I keep doing that. I didn't have any goal or anything in mind, what do I want to reach? So I started...

Tommy (13:15)
So you didn't have any plan. You just told yourself, Hey, let's get started. And that was the beginning.

LeoMoves (13:20)
Yeah, definitely. Because back then I was, I started going into this, into this direction of break letics, of mixing breakdance and fitness. Because even in my breakdance practice, after training, I was like, how can I do some push -ups or some crunches, but mix them with some breakdance elements? Be creative there. And that was also my approach. And yeah, I said, okay, I'll just start posting. And while I was still working at the animal shelter.

I also remember that back then one of my friends was like, yeah, okay, now you started, so now to get more followers, what you can do is you can start send a message to all your followers on Facebook. Back then you were able to click something on Instagram to get an imitation to your channel from Facebook and I started doing that and then I got a few more followers and so those little things I had no idea about nothing but I just kept doing it, posting.

Tommy (14:15)
So you just got excited about one more follower here, one more follower there, and then you took it step by step. And then fast forward, now you have these big numbers. What does your life look like today?

LeoMoves (14:20)
Yeah.

I really appreciate, what is really crazy now that I am able to follow my passion to train that much, because before that, my days were like, I worked the whole day as an animal keeper until six in the evening. And then at six in the evening, I go to training, I go to breakdance.

Or sometimes we had two hours lunch break.

And during those lunch breaks sometimes I even went training. I went home, did my training, practiced, went back to work, you know. And now I can train in the morning, I can train in the afternoon, in between other work I do, and I can really do that. This is so nice. I get this freedom to train much more. So of course, this is also why I improved much more, learned much more from other disciplines as well, because I was able to make it my job. But...

It's not that my life now, you know, it's also funny sometimes people, they see my channel on Instagram and they think I'm famous, you know, but yeah, maybe I have this big number on Instagram, but nothing really changed. Of course it's nice sometimes when people in the world recognize me and like in Japan last week, you know, we're just somewhere in the street in Japan. One guy comes to you and says, are you LeoMoves? You know, it's crazy. It is crazy. It's, I never imagined that.

Tommy (15:46)
Wow.

LeoMoves (15:50)
But other than that, my life is the same, you know? I still have my same friends, my family. Yeah, it just gives me a bit more freedom, I would say.

Tommy (15:58)
I would say the difference is now you can live off your passion and your drive for movement. Is that correct? Can you live off it full time now?

LeoMoves (16:11)
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I can live from it full time now. Maybe I think you've heard about it, that I have my training app. I think this was a great decision. I started with it three years ago and by now I can live from it. So of course that gives me like another big, big thing of freedom because when I started, I was there, of course I was teaching at Balboa six classes a week. Then I was doing personal trainings, then I was doing workshops.

and I trained in between with all those things. And now I still teach, but I know I don't have to. So now it's a bit different approach because sometimes I also see coaches and also at those personal training teams, I coach and I hear them talking about, yeah, you know, I'm so tired of teaching eight personal trainings today and tomorrow I teach 10 personal trainings. And I think that just burns you out, you know, that's your quality of teaching.

decreases so much because you need to give so much energy to people when you teach, when you coach. And now I'm so fortunate to say I coach when I want to coach, but I don't have to. So I don't have to teach eight hours a day to survive. I can say, yes, I want to do one, two trainings a day with people that really want to train with me, want to learn something. But if I don't want, if I want to stop teaching, I could.

this is a very very nice feeling that gives us so much freedom.

Tommy (17:41)
This is a very important topic that you mentioned and I just want to stick here for a little bit longer and it's very important to go deeper into what you just touched on, which is a lot of trainers or people in general want to do something else, but they don't know how. And I think here is where you not only have the drive, but also an unfair advantage. If we look at the world of business, there's this famous business book called the blue ocean strategy, maybe you've heard of it. So how Cirque du Soleil became successful was they looked at circuses, which were all the same. And so they said they're going to combine acrobatics with show for adults. And that's how they became Cirque du Soleil, which is a niche within a niche. And I think it's very similar when I look at you. I think you're very unique. You're in the fitness space.

But you've created your own blue ocean. I don't see anyone else who could come close to you because what most fitness influencers do is they do squats, they do deadlifts, they do pull -ups, always the same. A muscle -up could be a little bit more exciting every now and then, but you do three -dimensional movements from windmills to handstands. I don't know what they're all called. How do you see...

yourself positioned in this whole fitness space.

LeoMoves (19:11)
Yeah, that was a really good example about the Cirque du Soleil because exactly this is exactly what I also did. Or this is also what I was thinking from the beginning when I started teaching here in Zurich. I knew, okay, I could teach break dance classes, but if I want to be a coach, if I want to be a personal trainer, even here in Zurich, there are so many coaches, there are so many personal trainers. And I was like, why should they come and train with me? If I do what everybody else does they may go to the one with the most experience, they go with the one that looks the prettiest or whatever, you know? And for me it was, yeah, but if I can offer people something that nobody else can do, yeah, of course, because then they have to come to me because I'm the only one that is able to teach them. So back then I was, yeah, I'm the only one that can give you this mix of breakdance and fitness and handstand. So this from the beginning was my idea to create something unique to...

to stand out of all of them. And I think this is also part of my success on social media because I do something that, of course, I don't say I'm the only one doing it. I mean, it's impossible to be the only one in the world doing something, but I got recognized for that. And of course, sometimes the way I combine it is unique. I also say many times I don't invent a new move. It's really hard to invent a new move. Movement exists since...

millions of years, you know, but the way I combine it is unique. The way I teach it to people can be unique. So the way I mix it up is my own thing. And especially last year, I started focusing even more on that to say, hey, I really want to focus even more on showing people my unique approach of bodyweight training, because of course I can also do...

back squats. I can also do weighted calisthenics and pull ups and things like this. But again, everybody else does this as well. So why would they start learning, for example, pull ups with me? If there is somebody else, much better than me in pull ups. So maybe they go better to this person. So I was like, okay, handstand, all this stuff is okay. But focus even more on your own style of bodyweight training, because this is what makes you unique. And for the rest, they can also go to other people. So, and this is for sure one of the things why I have the success on social media, because people recognize it. that's, I never saw this before. I like this style. Also because it's bodyweight focused, because I also wanted to show something to people that they can say,

Tommy (21:49)
Right.
All right.

LeoMoves (21:58)
You can do it anywhere, anytime, no excuses, you know, because if you work out at the gym, if you have these machines, these weights, it's not bad in general, but imagine you travel and you always have to worry about is there a good gym close by or do I have weights somewhere to train? And if not, you're a little bit lost. But if I say, yeah, you can do it in a hotel room next to the bed, you can do it outside on the grass. You can do it wherever you want. You have so much more freedom.

Tommy (22:19)
Right.
Don't you think there are also people who look at you and feel inspired but say I could never do that?

LeoMoves (22:35)
many. This is what I hear all the time. And this was also a bit of a problem in the beginning on my social media. I changed my approach a lot over the years because back then for me, I showed more like the very crazy, difficult stuff. And people maybe followed me back then because it looked cool. It looked crazy. And it maybe gave me some followers, but also so when I started with my training at three years ago.

Yeah, of course, maybe back then I had, I don't know, 80 ,000 followers. And you think, okay, you start releasing an app and so many people will sign up, but didn't happen. Because maybe the people think, yeah, but I cannot learn those things. They are way too difficult. So then I needed to change something to show people I'm also a good coach. I'm a good teacher and I cannot only do crazy things. So I can show you how you can start from the beginning.

And this is also an approach over the last years that I showed much, much more. How do you start as a beginner? How can you get there? Even my classes here at Balboa, when I started with my breakletics class, it was really hard to get people into my class because again, they saw my crazy moves. They hear the name breakletics or breakdance, breakletics. I will never go there. It's way too difficult. And I had to show people, no, no, no, of course that makes no sense. I show you how you can get there. And I always get this excuse.

I'm not good at coordination, so I don't come to your class. But I tell people, it's like if I would say, I never start playing piano because I'm not good at playing piano. Yeah, of course, because you need to practice to become good at it. So it's the same with coordination. You have to learn it step by step and then you become better. If you never use your coordination your whole life, because the only thing you do is push -ups and pull -ups and squats. You lost it. You don't have the feeling for it, but then start.

and you will become better, like with everything else in the world. You need to. Of course, some people have more talent for something, but in the end, nobody can play piano from day one perfectly. No, you have to learn it with everything.

Tommy (24:44)
Right, so you said in order to grow your audience, you have to break it down and dumb it down to a step -by -step process which people can follow along regardless of their movement talent.

LeoMoves (24:59)
yeah. This is also what I love to show because I mean, now I do a good mix. Sometimes show what I can do, like show off a little bit, then show people very easy stuff, then show people solutions for problems they have, then also show personal stuff. Like when I was in Ecuador, a mix of everything is very important on social media. but like then it was only crazy stuff. And then it was only workouts.

But then for people they were like, yeah, but he puts everything for free on Instagram. Why should I go to train with his app if he's showing his workouts for free anyways the whole time? So I also had to stop this a little bit. And for me, a good teacher is exactly that. For me, a good teacher is somebody that can give the right inputs to every person. Doesn't matter the level. And I love to have one move. And then I think about how can I break this move down into various steps.

to make it way easier and to see how can you go step by step to reach this high level. This is what I love and this is what I think it's important as a coach to be able to do.

Tommy (26:08)
Preserving your passion is super important, but let's roll it back one step because I think you said something very important for potential Creators or up -and -coming creators you said you showed everything step by step and then you have people Saying why should I buy a course from this guy because I can get everything for free. Is that correct?

LeoMoves (26:27)
Yeah, there was not only, it was not that I showed everything step by step, but I just posted workouts. That was a phase on Instagram, because Instagram also changes, you know, like, and I remember this phase where I was able to post those carousel posts. That means, so like four or five slides, you can just slide to the left and see the next exercise. That was one phase. I posted them and it got me so much reach. I remember there was one post that gave me 20 ,000 followers. One post.

Tommy (26:47)
Yeah you.
Wow.

LeoMoves (26:57)
You know, so this was also a reason of growing. And then, but at some point, one day all of a sudden it stopped. I posted the carousel post and I saw, it doesn't work anymore. And then I had to change again and approach how can now reals are more important. But back then, like I said, I posted so many workouts because I knew they work. Gave me many followers. There was so many people save it. But again, then people are, why should I buy this app? Or why should I even like.

train with him if I can get everything for free and just save those personal students.

Tommy (27:32)
Then what happened? How did you change your strategy to get people buying your courses?

LeoMoves (27:38)
One important thing is I bought an online course from a guy from New York. I saw it popped up and he said, yeah, do you want to grow your business on Instagram? We can show you our strategies, we can teach you. So it was a two month course. And I said, okay, let's invest in this course because I want to learn more in my physical practice.

So I also want to learn more now about Instagram, about those things. So well, it was a course where I got homework to do every week, where they showed you different kinds of posting. They gave you tips and tricks with cutting, editing videos and stuff. And this taught me a lot, this course, because yeah, I learned different strategies. And I remember back then it was really hard for me to change because I knew if I start doing this now, people will not like it.

because they are used to my other posts. And I've all of a sudden start posting this new stuff that doesn't give them anything. I was afraid I would lose a lot of followers. And I was afraid that engagement gets really bad.

Tommy (28:50)
What do you mean you started posting stuff that were not in its entirety? So more like sneak peeks and people were expecting more? Is that what you're saying?

LeoMoves (28:56)
Good.
Yes, exactly. People were expecting my workouts. People were expecting workouts that they can save. And I was like getting my... Somehow I got also my... How you say? My... My... My...

Tommy (29:14)
your confirmation, your validation.

LeoMoves (29:16)
Yeah, my confirmation, because if I post something and then not many people interact with it, it doesn't get many likes. For me, it's like, it was bad. What I'm doing is bad, you know? And if people interact with it like it, I was like, I know I do a good job. And then all of a sudden they tell, yeah, now we have to post this. I would never post that. That cannot work well. And it also didn't work well. But then they were also telling me...

But it doesn't matter because imagine the amount of followers doesn't matter if you want to make a business. And that's totally true. You can have 1000 followers and you can make way more money than one with 1 million followers because maybe the 1 million followers, they just like what you do, but nobody pays anything for you. But if those 1000s, every one of these pays you $100 a month, you don't need more followers. And then if I, at this time, if I lose followers,

It's like a cleanup. It's okay. I don't want them. I only want these followers that are interested in more of me and not only getting stuff for free. So that was a time where it shifted, engagement dropped down. I lost some followers. I went through it. And I think very important is after this course, I had this information. But then the good thing is I didn't have to do what they tell me.

Then I started to find out, okay, how can I use this information, but still be myself and create my own way of using this information. And I think this was the, was a key point that I said, okay, now I learned a lot, but now I do it my way. And then I found out what works, how can I do it? And I found out my flow more and more and it started growing. Of course my followers started growing again. And, but also, app subscribers started growing but step by step it was not like yeah it went up like this like crazy like you would expect not at all.

Tommy (31:19)
Right, so you took the hit, you lost your confidence for a while, but then you found your own edge and that's how you grew and you only focused on the numbers that mattered, which were the ones who were die -hard fans, the ones who were actually willing to pay for your services and that helped you grow.

LeoMoves (31:40)
Yeah, of course. I mean, it will all be like this. Like 99 % of people that don't want to pay for your services, but that doesn't matter. But for me, it was important that I start showing different sides of me and not only those workouts for free. Exactly. And if people don't want to see that, they can go. No problem, you know. And don't focus so much anymore on likes. You know, it's a thing. Many people... Do you post only to get a lot of likes or...

Tommy (31:55)
Mm -hmm.

LeoMoves (32:10)
Why do you post actually? Why do you do this social media thing? Because I tell many people like, yeah, many, okay, I have 1 .5 million followers, but Instagram doesn't pay me anything. People think, yeah, you're rich, you have 1 .5 million followers. Yeah, but they don't give me any money. It's not like, it's just a number that is shown there. Also like.

Tommy (32:31)
And you can DM them, but you don't own their email address. You don't have any other contact with them except for the DM.

LeoMoves (32:37)
Yeah, exactly. Of course there are ways how you can start putting a form there. People will write their email there. Then you have to email addresses. But then you also have to think if you start doing that, I will stop being a coach because I have no time for anything else anymore. At some point you also have to decide somehow what do you want to be? Do you want to be a coach? Do you want to be an influencer? Do you want to be a business owner in online business?

Because you cannot do everything.

Tommy (33:08)
That's a good segway to the next question and that would be were there any tasks that you outsourced or are outsourcing today or are you really doing everything on your own?

LeoMoves (33:22)
Yeah, I'm doing pretty much still everything on my own. I mean, for sure, until a few months ago, I was doing everything on my own. I record my videos, I edit my videos, I reply messages, I teach, I train, I give workshops, everything on my own. And this is also, it's a nice satisfaction for me because I know how much I reached just with myself, you know, without...

other companies working for me without buying followers or whatever, you know. But when I started with my brother, one of my brothers, he's a video editor. So he started editing my YouTube videos, for example. Still, I don't do enough on YouTube, well, I think, but I was okay. How can we start also posting on YouTube? So he starts editing my YouTube videos. And my girlfriend, she is now starting to work more for me.

by replying to emails, especially email wise, marketing wise. The plan is also in the future that you can do more and more work for me because also I think it's important. Why should you do it if there are other people that know much more about it? I hate sitting in front of the laptop and replying to emails. If I could choose, I would just be in the gym the whole day, being in front of the camera on train.

And then I would give it to everybody else. They can do it. But of course it's not like that. But yeah, the YouTube editing is one thing and replying to emails, set up the homepage for workshops and stuff. This is now also doing my girlfriend for me. Those are the two things at the moment.

Tommy (35:06)
How do you know what content to create for the app or also for your Instagram, the free content as well as the paid content? What is your creative process or brainstorming process and how much do you involve your followers or fans?

LeoMoves (35:23)
I think one nice thing is since I do so many things, there are thousands of exercises I can do. There are thousands of variations. Because I hear many times from people, they ask me, will you success on Instagram? I'm like, you have to be consistent. Like in training, you have to post. I post daily, you know, 99 % daily since years. But I never lose ideas.

Because many people are, I don't have ideas, what should I post so many times? You know? But I have so many different moves, so many creations, combinations, so I will never stop having ideas in my mind. How do I know what to post? I also found out over time what works well. And sometimes, if you know what works well, keep doing it in another way. For example, I had one post I do for...

exercises to level up your bodyweight training. Then I'll show four crazy combos of bodyweight training. I did it once, it went viral, it worked really well. Okay, so I can do it again, which is new exercises. So after a few weeks, I do again, four exercises to level up your bodyweight training, but new exercises. It's the same concept, but different. This you can use if you see something works. You don't have to invent yourself.

new every post, you know. So that's an idea. After a while you see what works well. Okay, this kind of post works good. This also, this also. So I keep using them, but change them up a little bit. That is an option. Then the other thing is I don't involve my followers too much. So I don't do like, I don't ask them, what do you want me to post and stuff like this.

But of course, over the while you get a feeling for what people like and what people don't like. I think this is experience and experiences like with everything in life. That's the most important thing. I post daily since years, so I have a lot of experience with that. And over the time I learned, okay, this works well, this is important, this, this, this. Same as people do training or teaching is the same. If you don't have experience with teaching in the beginning, it's hard. After a while you learn what do people need.

this situation popped up now I know already from experience how to solve this situation and this is not an important thing you have to just keep doing it start doing it you will see what works well what doesn't work well, take this, analyze it and keep working with that

Tommy (37:55)
And you also have to put in the work into the analysis, which is not something that a lot of people can do or would like to do. And you did that. So speaking of analysis, what kind of tools do you use? What numbers do you analyze? Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

LeoMoves (38:13)
I don't use any tools. The only thing is I go on Instagram and I see on my Reels, I see the amount of views. I see, this reel has 1 million views. And so I know, this went viral, this worked well. But I don't use any tool to analyze my postings, nothing like that. What I started to do is I started to write down on my notes on my laptop. Like one month, every post.

And then if a post has like, let's say more than 10 ,000 likes, I make one symbol. If one post has more than 20 ,000, I make another symbol. And if they have below, I don't do any symbols. I have only three symbols. And then I see in one month, okay, I see four times. It has more than 20 ,000, two times more than 10 and the rest is blank. Then I, so I started with that, but this I started like three months ago.

to check, okay, now I see how many did I have every month that worked well? So it stays consistent, okay, I'm doing well. If one month would be all blank, I know, okay, this month I did something that is not so good. Then I see which ones worked well, okay. Is there a structure? yeah, same concept that worked well, okay. This is the only thing I started doing, but I even didn't have a plan what to post.

Many people tell me, yeah, you plan, you post, it will save you so much time, you know. But I'm not so good at that because many times it comes spontaneous sometimes. Even I didn't think about what I will post today. I will think about it later, but maybe I'm at the gym. I feel, I am creative. I have good energy. Let's record something now. If I like it, I will edit today and post it today. Because many times I recorded like 10 reels in advance, but until I post them, I already don't like them anymore, but I never post them. That can also happen.

Tommy (40:13)
That's interesting. And apart from your moves and your strategy that you've developed, you also look good. I mean, you have a tremendous six pack. You have a body fat of about 7%, 8%, I would say. How much do you think looks still play a role in becoming successful?

LeoMoves (40:34)
Definitely it's important depending on again on what you want to give to people, you know, because it could also be that if you would not have a fit body that you would attract other people that also don't have this fit body and say "look this person doesn't have the six pack so I can relate much more with this person".

of course, if I show, if people see my body, it will also attract many people. I want to look like him, you know, a good role model. But I think for me, it's also, it's my personal opinion, but looking good will come almost for free if you do so much work as I do, if you train as much as I do. And if somebody wants to teach you how to become fit, but has a big belly and too much body fat,

Tommy (41:04)
Thanks for watching!

LeoMoves (41:26)
I think what you don't do it on your own because for me too much fat is not healthy. It's how it is. If you see wild animals, where do you see wild animals that are overweighted? Only if they live in the snow and need some body fat to survive during winter. But if you go to Africa, if you go to the rainforest, you only see overweighted animals in captivity in zoos because people feed them too much.

So it's something for me, animals show us, it's natural to not be overweighted. Because you will be slower, you will have problems with your joints, with this and that, diseases come much faster. So this is for me one of the opinions. But back to if I can attract people, yes, definitely it can attract more people. But it can also, how you say, distract some people, they get afraid of it, again.

because they think I have to look like him to do that. And that is definitely not true because like I said, many times also to my students, you don't need a six pack to do a handstand. You don't need a six pack to do a backflip. You don't need a six pack to do anything. You don't need it. And many times it's even not good. It's not good. Like if you say, if you want to lift heavy weights, a lot of weight, it's sometimes better if you have a bit more weight because you need to push this weight. And if you have too little body fat,

Maybe you have less energy than others. So sometimes it can also be not so beneficial.

Tommy (42:55)
And how much in detail do you actually know your target audience?

LeoMoves (43:00)
You mean like which countries they are and the age and those things, those statistics?

Tommy (43:06)
The age, the gender, also are they very athletic? Are they non -sporty at all? Can you define your target audience and is this something that's important to you to know?

LeoMoves (43:20)
I think it would be important for me to know. But again, this is a thing that will come maybe now in the future more when my girlfriend starts working more and more with me because she's exactly this is part of her job. This is what she can do well. But then start analyzing those things because since I did everything on my own, I didn't invest the time into that. Of course, I can go into my Instagram insights and it shows you what age my followers are, what gender more are.

the top four pounders you can show but not much more. But I think the target audience for me would be like maybe I just recently have thought about it and it would be maybe a person between 25 -35 years old, like not crazy fit but also not overweighted and they had some little pain here and there.

and they wanted to start being more mobile, but also to be more defined and gain more strength. And also people that are bored with most trainings because they are like, I don't like to go to the gym. It's too boring. I need something that motivates me. And so if they find this style that is fun for them, where they can move with their own body weights without even thinking I'm working out now.

I think those people are the main audience for me, but I also have older people, I have younger people, I have everything, I would say. But I didn't really analyze it in detail.

Tommy (44:51)
That's super interesting. What I can take away from this talk with you, which has been super insightful, is you've never stopped. This is something that most people don't have. A lot of people would have stopped at many...

instances in your life, but you just kept going and going and that's super inspirational. Now with someone like you who has such a drive, let me ask you, how satisfied are you in life or with your current situation? Because I can imagine that you have so much creativity and so much drive for growth, maybe it's hard to stop for a moment and just take it all in and say, hey, I'm proud of myself, I'm satisfied. How's that with you?

LeoMoves (45:39)
yeah, I'm very proud, I'm very happy. So it's funny because every day when I go to bed before I sleep, I say thank you. And I really do that every night before I go to sleep. I say thank you so much that I have a healthy body, that I don't have pain, that I'm so successful, that I have this good life. And every day I say this to myself many times because I know I'm so fortunate to be able in the position where I am, of course.

I'm doing a lot of work. I invest a lot of work to be where I'm at now. But I know also to compare to other people when you travel, you see that, you know, I have, I won the lottery in life already, you know, I don't need much more. Even three years ago, I already won the lottery because I was able to live from coaching to live from doing what I love to do. I'm able to train so much because I love that. And I'm definitely very satisfied.

every day I'm thankful for it and I say this to myself really every day. Well of course one thing is I always want to keep going that's the thing I don't say I reached 1 .5 now that's it. I also have my goals that I say to myself every night before I go to sleep. This is my goal, this is my goal, these are the next three goals I have I want to reach them. So I also have this in my head I want to keep this to how we say to, yeah, just to have it in my mind in front of me. Being thankful, exactly, exactly. I manifest my goals every day before I go to bed and I'm thankful for my health, for my body, for my family, my friends, my life, every day as well. That's definitely, and I think one of the main reasons why I'm so consistent in what I do since years is because I love it.

Tommy (47:08)
Yeah, you manifest it. You do manifestation every day before you go to bed.

LeoMoves (47:32)
That's the most important thing. I really love what I do. I like to record videos. I like to edit videos. You know, I also like to do that. So this is why I'm anyways doing it when I'm traveling, when I'm on holidays. I always do it because it can be also one thing. It's hard. People ask me, do you ever disconnect? You know, when you go on holidays, two weeks with your girlfriend, can you not use Instagram for two weeks? And I say I could, but I don't want to. It's part of my job, you know.

And people have to understand that this will be part of my job. I don't know for how long, you know, and maybe I will tell her, of course, I'm not working seven hours a day on my Instagram, but maybe one hour a day. She has to know, look, now give me time. One hour. I have to do my post. I want to edit my stuff, reply some messages, but then that's it. You know, so that's also the reason why I'm working so much. It doesn't feel like work, you know, but I can always do something. There is always something to do.

It's actually online, yeah.

Tommy (48:31)
That's amazing. I have one closing question. What would you wish more people knew or more people would do?

LeoMoves (48:34)
Hmm?
I think I would wish more people would do what they really love, you know, or find something they really love. Of course, it's always easy to say, if you don't like your job, change your job, do what you love, you know, but of course, many times it's not so easy to do, to change. But even then, find something next to your job that you love to do.

that can give you new energy for the next day, that can keep you happy and healthy, you know. And sometimes, I don't know if every person out there can answer this question. What is your passion? What do you really love to do? And I think there are some people that don't know it. And I think this is difficult. Also job -wise, what would you love to do? What is, and if people don't know it.

then maybe start thinking about it, start thinking about what is your goal, what is your dream? I just talked about this recently when I was in Japan, even my brother and my other friend there. What is your dream? Because if you have a dream or a goal, then you can manifest it. And if you can manifest something in your minds, then this will change so much for sure. You will be more focused on working towards something. And as more as you manifest something, as more it will come. This is my opinion.

But if you don't have that, if you just, you live your life day by day, you go to do your job just to earn your money. But even after work, you just go home or some TV, you don't have anything that you love, that is your passion. Maybe try to find something and maybe try to manifest something, to be able to manifest something. Can even be my next holidays to South Africa. Okay, now I have this manifestation. I do it for that because next year I want to go there.

Tommy (50:30)
Yeah, and it takes a lot of courage to know what you love and actually pursue that because I would even say a lot of people know what they would love to do but they suppress it out of fear or belief that they will never be able to do it because they have to work at a bank or whatsoever. Especially if you have a high -paying job, you have this what you call golden handcuffs.

get your nice salary at the end of the month and that's just too nice to risk to pursue your passion or your love for something without having that certainty that you can actually succeed at it get out of those golden handcuffs and replace your salary. And what do you say to people who have that belief or who are simply afraid of taking that leap?

LeoMoves (51:23)
Yeah, this is also a common problem, definitely, especially in countries like Switzerland, you know, where...

It's somehow easy to earn a good amount of money compared to other countries, you know. But I had the same situation when I was working at the animal shelter and I told my boss, I want to start doing this school to become a fitness coach. So I want to work 50 % at the animal shelter and 50 % I want to do the other stuff. He told me you have to quit. You cannot work 50%. Either you quit or you stay. And I also took the decision to quit. It was for me, I was also in certain states to say, there will always come something new, you know? And I think the chances are so low that if you quit something, even if the other thing doesn't work, there is always something other you can do, you can work, you know? I mean, especially in a country like this, it's so easy to work. If you just want to do something, work something, you will find anything. Of course, in the whole world, you have different countries, you have different situations, definitely.

But you also have to think you have one life, you know, you only live once, you have one life. And do you want to spend the rest of this life being somehow unhappy with something, but you're not of money, but does it in the end make you happy this money? Or do you really want to live this life and maybe even earn a bit less, but it just gives you so much more quality of life because your work, in the end, it's like 90 % of your life you're working. You just five days a week.

depending on the job, how many hours, but I think this is so important that this time of your life is also spent with somehow quality. Because it will also affect your mental health, it will also affect how fast you age, it will affect many, many things if you're not happy, if you have too much stress and all those things. So also think about the future, think about 10, 20 years from now on, how you will feel then.

Tommy (53:24)
That's a very good point and I think different people have different situations which we all have to respect and for people who are maybe a little bit older or need the money to survive, they can follow their passion by just doing it on the side, in the evenings or on the weekends and see how it goes before you take a big leap and quit your job or go 50 % and maybe that will develop into something bigger.

or even if you cannot monetize it, you'll at least have done it and be more fulfilled along the way.

LeoMoves (53:59)
Yeah, find something that charges your battery, you know, again, I think that's important. Like I said, if even if your work is not your dream job, but you're okay with it, then find something outside from your world that gives you new energy, that fills you up with new energy, that makes you happy, you know, even that, of course, that's also an approach to do, but your mental health is so important. If you have too much stress, if you're not happy in life, then your real should change.

change something, definitely.

Tommy (54:30)
That's a good closing statement. Thank you so much, Leo. And where can people find you?

LeoMoves (54:32)
Thank you.

And of course I have my Instagram channel Leo.Moves. leo. moves. Under the same name, you can find my YouTube channel, LeoMoves. TikTok the same. I have those three channels online. And of course you also have my homepage leomoves .com, where you can also see my upcoming workshops. If I have some workshops planned, you can also see more information about my training app. This training app is also linked in my Instagram bio. You have a 70 free trial, so you can also just have a look at it.

There is so, so much content, thousands of exercises there already. If you don't like it, cancel it before the seven days are over. If you have questions, feel free to send me questions, ask me whatever you want to know. But that is my present. And if you want to join one of my classes in person, I teach one class a week, group class a week, every Tuesday evening at 6 .30 here in Zurich, Switzerland at Balboa Gym Viadukt.

Tommy (55:32)
Great, thanks so much for sharing all of your insights, learnings and also being an inspiration to so many people around the world. And I'll see you next time and for the people at home, thanks for watching. questions, write them below and like and subscribe. Till next time, bye bye.

LeoMoves (55:53)
Thank you so much for coming, it was a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Bye bye, have a good day.

Tommy (55:56)
You're welcome.

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